A Long Journey – Cycle of Birth and Death!

First, in order to impart the Truth (ਸਚ) to masses, all the 35 contributors of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib (SGGS) have used terms that were prevalent and prevailing at their time as examples (ਹਵਾਲਾ). BUT, BUT, WITH DIFFERENT OR CHANGED MEANINGS! Included in these terms are, for example, cycle of Birth and Death (or coming and going…), Yuga, etc. In other words, as the Gurbani asserts, whatever Pujaaree groups (Pandit/Brahmin, Mullaan, and so on) have written, the Gurbani rejects all of that:

  • ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਛਾਡਿ ਚਲੇ ਹਮ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਲੀਆ ॥੩॥: Whatever the Pandit and the Mullaan have written (the path of Karamkaand, Shariyat…), I have abandoned (all of that); I have not taken any of it ||3||. (sggs 1159).

Second, the Gurbani is written at the level of the mind — it’s for the mind to reflect upon it, understand it, and then live its Wisdom in daily life, here and now, not after death!

In nutshell, the Gurbani is the mind’s Mirror, which reveals to a mind its true face (or its real condition or state) — its flaws, faults, defects, demerits, false ego-sense (Haumai), hypocrisy, deceptions, doubt, falsehood, fraud, Pakhand, duality, Bikaar (lust, anger, greed, etc.). The Gurbani says:

  • ਹਉ ਆਇਆ ਦੂਰਹੁ ਚਲਿ ਕੈ ਮੈ ਤਕੀ ਤਉ ਸਰਣਾਇ ਜੀਉ ॥: I have come traveling a long distance, (now I am) seeking Your Sanctuary (ਆਸਰਾ). (sggs 763).

Does “Traveling a long distance” mean coming and going or repeated birth and death as boasted by the Pujaaree groups? Not according to the SGGS.

However, the illiterate and self-serving Sikh Pujaaree groups always relate it with a cycle of 84-Lakh (ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਦਾ ਗੇੜ) as talked by the Brahmins or Pandits in their fake stories (ਗੱਪ ਕਹਾਣੀਆਂ).

That’s just a misrepresentation of the Gurmat (Wisdom, Giaan, Upadesh or Way of the SGGS) by the corrupt Pujaaree system. In reality, however, nothing could be further from the truth!

Having said that, certainly, by “Traveling a long distance” (“ਬਾਟ”, “ਜਾਤ੍ਰਾ”, “ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ”…), etc., the wisdom of the SGGS does NOT mean the following:

  • Pujaaree’s concocted story of after-death cycle of “84-Lakh” (ਚਉਰਾਸੀ ਦਾ ਗੇੜ).
  • Or, distance from one’s home to a Gurdwara
  • Or, distance from one’s home to a Deraa (ਡੇਰਾ) or an Aashram
  • Or, distance from one’s home to a place of pilgrimage (or Teerath), and so on…
  • The Gurbani calls Kudarat to be limitless, etc. As such, Kudrat can NOT be limited to a finite number such as “8.4-Lakh” “ਕੁਦਰਤਿ ਕਰਮੁ ਨ ਕਹਣਾ ਜਾਈ ॥”!

Then, according to the Gurbani, what does it mean?

It’s the mind — not the body — that’s born every moment and then dies every moment!

In other words — depending on the state of one’s mind at a given moment — it’s the mind ridden with doubt, fear, attachment, Haumai (false ego-sense), Bikaar, etc, the Gurbani is referring to that continues coming and going. 

  • ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਕੇਤੜਿਆ ਜੁਗ ਭਰਮਿਆ ਥਿਰੁ ਰਹੈ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥: (Man’s) this mind wanders through so many states; it does not remain stable and it continues coming and going. (sggs 513).
  • ਮਾਇਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਬਹੁ ਬਿਧੀ ਮਨੁ ਲਪਟਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਸੰਗ ॥: Maya wavers many ways, the mind clings to this (Maya, also wavers many ways). (sggs 258).
  • ਭੈ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੰਮੈ ਭੈ ਮਰੈ ਭੀ ਭਉ ਮਨ ਮਹਿ ਹੋਇ ॥: Birth and death happen in fear; and this fear exists in the mind (sggs 149).
  • ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ ਮਨ ਮੋਹੁ ਬਢਾਇਓ ॥: Attachment (worldly love), the root of birth and death, is  increased in the mind. (sggs 250).

How so? For example, depending on the situation, when the lusty mind dies, it may be reborn the very next moment as a greedy mind, or an angry mind, or an attached mind, or an haughty or arrogant mind, or a jealous mind, or a stubborn mind, or a corrupt mind, or an ignorant mind, or a wise mind, or a merciful mind, or a contented mind, or an enemy, or a friend, or a slanderer, and so on.

This nonstop cycle of birth and death of the mind continues all day along, everyday!

Hence, in nutshell, re-birth is of the man’s nature (ਸੁਭਾ), here and now, NOT after death of the body-frame!

  • ਭਰਮੇ ਭੂਲਾ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਫਿਰਤਾ ॥ ਨੀਰੁ ਬਿਰੋਲੈ ਖਪਿ ਖਪਿ ਮਰਤਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥: A Saakat (one separated from his Mool, Wisdom, Virtues…) wanders astray in doubt. He churns water (only), and on account of this useless effort, he continuously wastes away his life and thus continuous experiences death (of his spiritual life). ||1||Pause|| (sggs 739).

In other words, it’s the restless and rambling ego-mind that is born and dies every moment while transacting with the outside world —sometimes with dominant dog mentality; sometimes with dominant pig mentality; sometimes with dominant donkey mentality; dominant sometimes with dominant crow mentality; sometimes with dominant snake mentality; and so on. The Gurbani makes this very clear as follows:

  • ਗੁਰ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਹੀਣਸ੍ਯ੍ਯ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਧ੍ਰਿਗੰਤ ਜਨਮ ਭ੍ਰਸਟਣਹ ॥ ਕੂਕਰਹ ਸੂਕਰਹ ਗਰਧਭਹ ਕਾਕਹ ਸਰਪਨਹ ਤੁਲਿ ਖਲਹ ॥੩੩॥: That mortal who lacks the Gur-mantra (Guru’s counsel, advice, Wisdom, Upadesh, ਸਲਾਹ), cursed and fallen (depraved, polluted…) is his life. That wicked person is a dog, a pig, a jackass, a crow, a snake (in this very life, here and now, not after death). ||33|| (1356).
  • ਪਰ ਧਨ ਪਰ ਤਨ ਪਰ ਤੀ ਨਿੰਦਾ ਪਰ ਅਪਬਾਦੁ ਨ ਛੂਟੈ ॥ ਆਵਾ ਗਵਨੁ ਹੋਤੁ ਹੈ ਫੁਨਿ ਫੁਨਿ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਤੂਟੈ ॥: Others’ wealth, others’ bodies(others’ wive), others’ slander, and others’ infamy or reproach – (these Bikaars) do not go away. (For the sake of Bikaar, at the level of the mind, a person) is born and dies again and again (i.e., every second or moment – many times a day…), and this theme never ends. (sggs 971).

Hence, a mortal’s mind lacking Bhagti (Wisdom, Virtues,  Naam, or the Gurmukh Lifestyle…) remains deformed and perplexed, and consequently to the end (“ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ”), it’s as that person is living a Joon or life as a snake, prostitute, pig, goblin, dog, jackass, crow, camel, frog, monkey, elephant, deer, and other animals (ਪਸੂ ਜੂਨ), again and again (“ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ”!

  • ਜਿਨਾ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨ ਸੇਵਿਓ ਸਬਦਿ ਨ ਕੀਤੋ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਓਇ ਮਾਣਸ ਜੂਨਿ ਨ ਆਖੀਅਨਿ ਪਸੂ ਢੋਰ ਗਾਵਾਰ ॥ ਓਨਾ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਗਿਆਨੁ ਨ ਧਿਆਨੁ ਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਸਉ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਨ ਪਿਆਰੁ ॥: Those who do not serve the Satiguru (Knowledge of Truth) through Reflection on the Shabad (Shabad-Vichaar, Gur-Giaan or Wisdom, Upadesh…), do not call them human beings; they are (just like the) foolish dead animals. They have neither spiritual Knowledge nor contemplation within (Giaan Dhiaan); they have no love and affection for “Hari” (i.e., Mool, Prabh, Jot…). (sggs 1418).
  • ਮੈ ਪਤਿ ਕੀ ਪੰਦਿ ਨ ਕਰਣੀ ਕੀ ਕਾਰ ॥ ਹਉ ਬਿਗੜੈ ਰੂਪਿ ਰਹਾ ਬਿਕਰਾਲ ॥: I have not followed the Divine Way (Divine Wisdom), nor have I done good deeds. (As a result, my Original Jot Saroop) got deformed and remains perplexed. (sggs 24).
  • ਬਿਨੁ ਬੂਝੇ ਪਸੂ ਭਏ ਬੇਤਾਲੇ ॥੬॥: Without understanding, people become beast (-nature) and demon ||6|| (sggs 224).
  • ਮਨਮੁਖ ਵਿਣੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਕੂੜਿਆਰ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਬੇਤਾਲਿਆ ॥ ਪਸੂ ਮਾਣਸ ਚੰਮਿ ਪਲੇਟੇ ਅੰਦਰਹੁ ਕਾਲਿਆ ॥: Manmukh are devoid of the Naam (Wisdom, Virtues, Truth…); they deal with falsehood and wander about like demons. (In reality) they are animals, wrapped up in human skin and are black (corrupt, Bikaaree…) from within. (sggs 1284).

The aim of the SGGS is to freeze this wandering mind bring about cessation of its movement or the vicious cycle of its birth and death, and help the deluded mind trace its steps back to its True Nature (Jot Saroop), Here and Now and move it out of the Bhav Saagar and usher it into the Sukh Saagar.

  • ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਭੂਲਾ ਜਾਂਦਾ ਫੇਰੇ ॥: (The Wisdom of the Bani) turns the deluded mind around (sggs 118).
  • ਗੁਰ ਹਿਵ ਸੀਤਲੁ ਅਗਨਿ ਬੁਝਾਵੈ ॥: (O Yogi) Gur-Giaan (Gur-Wisdom) is cold like ice (cooling, soothing, that) puts out the fire (of the mind — desires, Trishnaa, Maya…). (sggs 411).
  • ਹਉਮੈ ਰੋਗੁ ਭ੍ਰਮੁ ਕਟੀਐ ਨਾ ਆਵੈ ਨਾ ਜਾਗੁ ॥: When the diseases of Haumai or false ego-sense and doubt are cast out (by applying the Wisdom of the SGGS); there is no coming and going (i.e., the movement of the Haumai mind freezes). (sggs 47).

Thus, it’s the mind that has to become human and stable by staying linked with the Gur-Wisdom, Virtues, Truth (ਸਚ), Naam, or Hukam (Universal Energy, Law of Nature). Otherwise, it will be living at the level of animal-consciousness — daily passing through countless animal-like lives, here and now, not after death!

  • ਕਰਤੂਤਿ ਪਸੂ ਕੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਾਤਿ ॥: (Those in love with Maya, etc., although they) belong to the human species, but they act like animals (sggs 267).
  • ਆਖਾ ਜੀਵਾ ਵਿਸਰੈ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਉ ॥: I come alive (Aatmak Jeevan-ਆਤਮਕ ਜੀਵਨ) as I practice (Naam – Virtues, Wisdom, Truth…). Upon forgetting (Virtues, Wisdom, Truth…), I die (spiritual death-ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ). (sggs 9 & 349).

Therefore, Baabaa Nanak tells us:

  • ਨਾਨਕ ਸਦਾ ਅਰਾਧਿ ਕਦੇ ਨ ਜਾਂਹਿ ਮਰਿ ॥੧੭॥: O Nanak! Always adore the Naam (Wisdom, Virtues, Truth…), you will not die ever (spiritual death-ਆਤਮਕ ਮੌਤ). ||17|| (sggs 1363).

The Manmukh-mind is deceitful, wicked, Bikaaree (stuck in lust, anger, greed, etc.), denier of Truth, egoistic, deluded, illusioned, ignorant, conditioned, and so on. Hence,  reincarnating every moment in this very life.

  • ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਆਵੈ ਜਾਇ ॥: The “Manmukh” (mind-orientations) die and the same is reborn (sggs 19).

Accordingly, the Gurbani reminds us that the mind’s cycle of birth and death will continue  until the mind continues to live foolishly instead of the Gur-Wisdom — target of a Sikh in life (Sikh = ਸਿਖਿਆਰਥੀ, a learner, a student of the Gur-Giaan or Wisdom)!

So, the SGGS time and again reminds us that “NOW” (“ਅਬ”) is the time!

  • ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰਹਿ ਸੋਈ ਅਬ ਸਾਰੁ ॥: Whatever you have to do – now is the best (time) to do it.  (sggs 1159).
  • ਅਬ ਮੈ ਕਉਨੁ ਉਪਾਉ ਕਰਉ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਨ ਕੋ ਸੰਸਾ ਚੂਕੈ ਭਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਰਿ ਪਰਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ … ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਬਿਰਦੁ ਪਛਾਨਉ ਤਬ ਹਉ ਪਤਿਤ ਤਰਉ ॥੨॥੪॥੯॥੯॥੧੩॥੫੮॥੪॥੯੩॥:: What effort should I make, now? By the help of which my mind’s “Sansaa” (uncertainty, anxiety, fear, apprehension; doubt, suspicion, etc.) may be ended, and I may cross the world-ocean (Bhav Saagar)? … Says Nanak!  Recognize glory of “Prabh” (i.e., Mool, Jot Saroop, Pure Nature, Virtues, Wisdom…); for only then can I, the degraded (mind), can cross (the world-ocean). ||2||4||9||9||13||58||4||93|| (sggs 685).

Once the mind regains its True Nature (Jot Saroop) through Bhagti, Wisdom or Virtues, it stops behaving like animals and, instead, starts behaving like a real human being. Then and only then a person becomes a real human, in real human body!

  • ਤਬ ਇਹ ਮਾਨਸ ਦੇਹੀ ਪਾਈ ॥: Then, understand to have obtained this human body. (sggs 1155).

Conquering of the Manmukh (Saakat or Mayadhaaree…) mindset is conquering of the long journey (“ਬਾਟ”, “ਜਾਤ੍ਰਾ”, “ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ”, coming and going…). The Gurbani says we can conquer the worldly mindset by becoming the Gurmukh. A Gurmukh mind is fearless and free of doubt, attachment, Haumai, Bikaar, etc.

  • ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮਰੈ ਨ ਕਾਲੁ ਨ ਖਾਏ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੨॥: Who becomes the Gurmukh does not die (i.e., he escapes from the death of his Spiritual Life); (he) is not consumed by (Spiritual) death. (Because) the Gurmukh remains absorbed in the Truth. ||2|| (sggs 125).

In nutshell, when the mind becomes established in the Gur-Wisdom or Giaan through the sincere Shabad-Vichaar or churning the Gurbani, it becomes frozen and its wanderings (ਭਟਕਣਾਂ, coming and going birth and death…) stop.

  • ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਜਨਮੇ ਗਵਨੁ ਮਿਟਾਇਆ ॥: As (the mind) Awakened to the True Wisdom (i.e., Satgur – ਸਚਾ ਗਿਆਨ), wandering (of the mind) ended (sggs 940).
  • ਫਾਹੇ ਕਾਟੇ ਮਿਟੇ ਗਵਨ ਫਤਿਹ ਭਈ ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤ ॥: When one conquers his (own) mind, victory (Fatih-”ਫਤਿਹ”) is obtained; (Maya’s) snares are cut (ਮਾਇਆ ਦੇ ਮੋਹ ਦੇ ਬੰਧਨ ਕੱਟੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ); and one’s (Mayaic-ਮਾਇਆ ਪਿਛੇ ਭਟਕਣਾ) wanderings cease. (sggs 258).

Let’s remember what Baabaa Kabeer tells us – the human birth DOES NOT happen gain and again!

  • ਕਬੀਰ ਮਾਨਸ ਜਨਮੁ ਦੁਲੰਭੁ ਹੈ ਹੋਇ ਨ ਬਾਰੈ ਬਾਰ ॥ ਜਿਉ ਬਨ ਫਲ ਪਾਕੇ ਭੁਇ ਗਿਰਹਿ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਲਾਗਹਿ ਡਾਰ ॥੩੦॥: O Kabeer! It is “Dulambhu” (rare, unique, etc.) to obtain this human birth; it does not come again and again. It is like the ripe fruit on the tree; when it falls to the ground, it cannot be re-attached to the branch ||30|| (sggs 1366).

37 replies on “A Long Journey – Cycle of Birth and Death!”

agree with T. Singh , if one claims to know what is after death, then one has to be spiritually dead to talk about 8.4 lakh, the only way they would come with such nonsense is because they continually come and go in reincarnation in the mind. Keep up the Godly work T. Singh, reading your posts is like reading the SGGS.

“They give themselves lofty names and by giving themselves these names, they refuse to take the truth from a non lofty name of an ant filled with God’s grace”

Thank you so much for well defined explanation for my humble understanding. I always thought the 84 lakhs was in reference to reincarnation and I am glad to have read this today.

Thank you for another very thoughtful and insightful wisdom. As I was reading the following from your blog, it occurred to me that for the “journey of life” to be successful mind has to be stabilized from its up and down swings ( the so-called coming and going or birth and death cycle, as you state in this blog):

“ਸਫਲ ਸਫਲ ਭਈ ਸਫਲ ਜਾਤ੍ਰਾ ॥ ਆਵਣ ਜਾਣ ਰਹੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਸਾਧਾ ॥: The journey of this life is successful only when coming and going of human mind ends, for which one may seek the company of the Guru (i.e., Giaan or the Wisdom). (sggs 687).”

If the stability of mind is the only yardstick for a successful life, as is being interpreted here, then what we make of all these corrupt political and other leaders ( let us keep Gurudawara leaders out for a moment) when they leave this world ( physically die). What about their unsuccessful life in this world? Does it have any consequence after they die. If there is no consequential accountability (after death), then what incentive gurubani has for such people to change. If we think gurubani has potential to change only some people and not all, then our thinking is deluded. I think, there are multiple dimensions of ਜਨਮ ਮਰਨ; your blog is focusing on just one and perhaps the most basic one. We need to elevate our intuition to have a peek in the infinite wisdom that Gurubani is alluding to before affirming one and only one position.

Guru Fetah

Thanks brother Paramjit Singh Rana JI for your reply.

If there is no consequential accountability (after death), then what incentive gurubani has for such people to change

• ਜੋ ਮੈ ਕੀਆ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਦੋਸੁ ਨ ਦੀਜੈ ਅਵਰ ਜਨਾ ॥ (sggs 433).
• ਜੇਹਾ ਬੀਜੈ ਸੋ ਲੁਣੈ ਕਰਮਾ ਸੰਦੜਾ ਖੇਤੁ ॥ (sggs 134).
• ਪਾਇ ਕੁਹਾੜਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਗਾਫਲਿ ਅਪੁਨੈ ਹਾਥਿ ॥੧੩॥ (sggs 1365).
• ਸਾਕਤ ਸੰਗਿ ਵਿਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ ਦੁਲਭ ਦੇਹ ਖੋਈ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਜੜ ਅਪੁਣੀ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾੜੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ (sggs 105).

If we think gurubani has potential to change only some people and not all, then our thinking is deluded.

Yes, the Wisdom of the Gurbani is for everybody to TAKE. However, you may explain it to somebody, but you cannot force somebody to take it if that person is unwilling or uninterested to recieve it. In other words, Sikhi cannot be thrusted upon somebody by force (ਧੱਕੇ ਨਾਲ). If it could be thrusted upon somebody, Baabaa Nanak would have thrusted it upon his two sons Sri Chand and Lakhmi Das; Guru Ramdas Ji would have thrusted it upon his son Prithy Chand; and Guru Amardas Ji would have thrusted it upon his son Mohan.
• ਆਪਣ ਹਥੀ ਆਪਣਾ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਕਾਜੁ ਸਵਾਰੀਐ ॥੨੦॥ (sggs 474).

Veer Ji:
If I am not mistaken you set out to present arguments to discount the prevalent belief in the “cycle of birth and death” — the so called reincarnation. I do not have any position on this as yest — I am just a learner and wish to learn from individuals like yourself and alike. I see you presented a lot of supporting arguments and highlighted one of the most important aspects of gurubani and that is: “the Gurbani is written at the level of the mind — it’s for the mind to reflect upon it, understand it, and then live its Wisdom in daily life, here and now, not after death!”

Indeed it is so true. Great!

However, if your position is that there is no such “birth-death cycle” or no process of reincarnation, as you articulated in the blog, then your above reply with following gurubani quotes effectively contradicts what you set out to establish in the blog.

• ਜੋ ਮੈ ਕੀਆ ਸੋ ਮੈ ਪਾਇਆ ਦੋਸੁ ਨ ਦੀਜੈ ਅਵਰ ਜਨਾ ॥ (sggs 433).
• ਜੇਹਾ ਬੀਜੈ ਸੋ ਲੁਣੈ ਕਰਮਾ ਸੰਦੜਾ ਖੇਤੁ ॥ (sggs 134).
• ਪਾਇ ਕੁਹਾੜਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਗਾਫਲਿ ਅਪੁਨੈ ਹਾਥਿ ॥੧੩॥ (sggs 1365).
• ਸਾਕਤ ਸੰਗਿ ਵਿਕਰਮ ਕਮਾਏ ॥ ਦੁਲਭ ਦੇਹ ਖੋਈ ਅਗਿਆਨੀ ਜੜ ਅਪੁਣੀ ਆਪਿ ਉਪਾੜੀ ਜੀਉ ॥੩॥ (sggs 105).

These gurubani lines draw focus on the “cause and effect relationship” but at the same time these lines do not make any suggestion when does the “effect” take place or has to take place.

Now look around the world, look at the high class crimes and criminals, genocides, our 1984 struggle/killings; we see many of these criminals pass away without paying their dues and people often wonder where is God — even Guru Nanak Sahib cried out where is justice. How do you establish the TRUTH of Gurbani as articulated in the above lines in these cases ? Gurbani is SAACH, it is the Universal TRUTH, it is our egocentric intellect that is not able to rise above our conventional thinking and take an intuitive flight to “Chautha Padh” to seek out the hidden jewels of Gurubani.

As the Gurubani that you have quoted, our every “action” has a “consequence”, if the consequence does not take place in this life then either the Gurubani is incorrect or the consequence has to take place in some other domain — could it be after life. I will leave it to your brilliant thought process to help me understand.

Guru Fetah!

Dear Rana Veer Ji
You are right that Bhai T Singh Ji has picked the state of JEEV in the Third Bhawan but there are in Total 3 Bhawans for Jot within Bhavsagar.

Hopefully on our request he will give us some registered details in Gurbani.

Respected T Singh Jeo,
You made a great contribution to come out and told the truth that goes against the interest and teachings of our clergy class. I never heard any one of them, except the teachers of Gurmat college Ludhiana, saying that 84 lakh transmigrations were beliefs that originated during the ages of darkness when there was little education or logic. There is no such thing accept what Guru tells us, that it is transmigrations of human mind that our gurus are warning us against.
Sometimes ago I wrote a similar article on my blog – Seeking Wisdom –

and received similar “non-acceptance” comments. It is very difficult to get the deep-seated beliefs in our society. We have to continue to such vichaars.

Veer ji :

Sorry, it just popped up…may be it is my server. Please accept my apology. I take it back what I just posted a minute ago. Or please just delete this last post of mine. Much appreciated!

Veer Ji,

Before this current post, you posted two posts dated Dec,17-2019 and Dec 18, 2019. I SEE BOTH OF THEM ALREADY POSTED! Which post are you talking about? I have already checked the spam box and is empty. Mind you, your posts here are automatically posted!

I so much agree with your thought process, Paramjit Singh Rana ji.
Perhaps T. Singh ji only wants to entertain the views that aligns with his perspective.
Gurbani provides us with the wisdom/intellectual/Insight of not just the way of living life on this planet Earth (false/materialistic/dream world) but Beyond it as well. There is so much beyond this world that we can’t even imagine. It’s and Endless creation of Waheguru ji (One and only Lord) without any bottom/end to it. BEAANT-BEAANT-BEAANT…….

Dear Dr Harbans ji
Gurbani is Braham Gian
It mostly uses the word ਕੇਤੇ for Numerous.

The word Chau+ Rashi seems to be an indicative of the 4 ways (4 Khanis) through which the JEEV enters the Third Bhawan when it is in reincarnations.

In my opinion we need to understand the meaning of the word incarnation in more depth so that there is no contradiction with the messages in gurbani.
There is obvious reference of incarnation of Guru in gurbani. We should look at the mechanism of this incarnation who neither takes birth or dies.

Basically the reincarnation of the soul in our life on earth, the life we are actually living. We have to bring in light which is Gurbani to fully get out of the reincarnations of our minds.

Okay, I think I do understand what Gurbani is saying. There is no such thing as an afterlife, but there is something we do during our life here on earth. We act of do things a certain way in which we become stuck in these lakh chourasee junes. By this Gurbani tells us when we become laalchi or greedy, them we become lobi or like a dog, in a sense that means we are in the state of a dog or a june of a dog.
I know that in the Hindu religion they believe in an after life of reincarnation. But Gurbani focuses on what we are doing now because no one has seen the afterlife. According to Gurbani about the afterlife, it says Joti jot rali sampooran thia raam, Sooraj Kiran mile jal ka jal huwa raam. Just like how water is merged with water, the soul is also merged with the greater soul.
My main point is that we have to be concerned with the life we are living now and making sure we are not falling the junes, and making sure we can get out of the vicious cycle of turning into those type of personalities.

Gurpreet Ji, I am intrigued by your line of thinking stating “because no one has seen the afterlife”. Did anyone have seen God? All religions of the world are premised on some divine existence which is beyond human comprehension. If we follow your ( and of many others) line of thinking “because no one has seen GOD”, there would not be any religious school of thought in the world. Gurubani brings in the “intermediatory” in the form of Guru ( spiritual wisdom) through which we can transcend to a higher plan of existence and get connected and perhaps be able to visulize GOD who is “Alakh”.

@T singh & GurpreetK, What you guys mentioned is correct but only one side of the story.
Other side is that 8.4M junes do exist, Court of dharamraj is real (It’s all creation of one lord (Waheguru) and If one has not purged him/herself of 5 main bikars entirely with the grace of guru before their death, they do come back in one of the living form depending on their actions/deeds. Reincarnation is real as per Gurbani (Both of the mind and 5 element physical body) and so is the june of bhut/pret/pishach/daemons) These are the souls without physical body wandering and suffering in pain due to evil actions while being in there physical body and are amongst us all the time. What we see/feel only is the physical realm due to our sheer limited thought process. So in short, Both meanings are correct, objective and subjective. Please listen to teachings of Real Brahamgiani’s like Bhai nand singh ji, Bhai Veer singh ji and more on youtube and hopefully your opinion would change.

Thank you Veer Ji for your reply.

Other side is that 8.4M junes do exist, Court of dharamraj is real….

Pandits/Brahmins do believe in all of this for they have concocted preposterous stories. Their gullible,greedy, fearful, or ignorant followers lacking commonsense also believe those manufactured stories.
But, the Gurmat does not agree with Pandits/Brahmins — it has renounced whatever they have written. So, what you said may be your personal Soch-ਸੋਚ (thinking), but not of the Gurbani:
• ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਜੋ ਲਿਖਿ ਦੀਆ ॥ ਛਾਡਿ ਚਲੇ ਹਮ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਲੀਆ ॥੩॥ (sggs 1159).
• ਹਮਰਾ ਝਗਰਾ ਰਹਾ ਨ ਕੋਊ ॥ ਪੰਡਿਤ ਮੁਲਾਂ ਛਾਡੇ ਦੋਊ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ (sggs 1158).

Gurbani is Braham Gian
It mostly uses the word ਕੇਤੇ for Numerous or bigger counts.

The word Chau+ Rashi seems to be an indicative of the 4 ways (4 Khanis) through which the JEEV enters the Third Bhawan when it is in reincarnations.

Hence it is not 8.4 Millions as they are fluctuations.

Whatever the count might be but there are just 4 Ways

WJKKWJKF, I have a question I would like to ask. What did you mean when you say that the humans have been through 8.4 million junes to get the human life or form?

1.ਫਿਰਤ ਫਿਰਤ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਆਇਆ ਪਰਿਆ ਤਉ ਸਰਨਾਇ I have come travelling a long distance, (now I am) seeking Your Sanctuary (ਆਸਰਾ).
2.ਬਹੁਤ ਜਨਮ ਬਿਛੁਰੇ ਥੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਇਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ਲੇਖੇ ॥
For so many incarnations, I have been separated from You, Lord; I dedicate this life to You.
3.ਬਹੁਤੇ ਫੇਰ ਪਏ ਕਿਰਪਨ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
I was wretched; I wandered through so many cycles of reincarnation. Now, Lord, please bless me with Your Grace.
The journey not ends with death of body only, it ends with the death of all desires i.e. :-
ਮਨੁ ਮਰੈ ਧਾਤੁ ਮਰਿ ਜਾਇ ॥
When the mind is conquered, its turbulent wanderings are stopped/Journey ENDS.

Thank you Bhai Sahib Jee for taking the time to share Shabad-Vichaar. Welcme to the Gurbani Blog!
As about quotations, the Gurbani is full of many more and very apt ones in this context, but all cannot be given from a space point of view.

I think it is important to understand from where the journey of the SOUL starts and at what stages it ends. There are numerous forms of lives in the universe and HUMAN FORM is an EXCLUSIVE of all for the reason that in HUMAN FORM only the CRATOR (PRABHu) can be
known thru GuRu this knowledge gives a great potential of getting out of numerous cycles of
Births. As such the journey of SOUL can get terminated from any stage if it gets the meeting of
GuROO…..Thus GuROO can meet in any form of life such is a great message from GurBaanee.

Guru Arjav Ji advises (Sri Raag M. 5, GGS. 43-3):-

ਪ੍ਰਾਣੀ ਤੂੰ ਆਇਆ ਲਾਹਾ ਲੈਣਿ ॥ ਲਗਾ ਕਿਤੁ ਕੁਫਕੜੇ ਸਭ ਮੁਕਦੀ ਚਲੀ ਰੈਣਿ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ ਕੁਦਮ ਕਰੇ ਪਸੁ ਪੰਖੀਆ ਦਿਸੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਕਾਲੁ ॥ ਓਤੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਮਨੁਖੁ ਹੈ ਫਾਥਾ ਮਾਇਆ ਜਾਲਿ ॥ਮੁਕਤੇ ਸੇਈ ਭਾਲੀਅਹਿ ਜਿ ਸਚਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥੨॥ਜੋ ਘਰੁ ਛਡਿ ਗਵਾਵਣਾ ਸੋ ਲਗਾ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ॥ਜਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਤੁਧੁ ਵਰਤਣਾ ਤਿਸ ਕੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ਫਾਥੇ ਸੇਈ ਨਿਕਲੇ ਜਿ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਪੈਰੀ ਪਾਹਿ ॥੩॥ਕੋਈ ਰਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਈ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋ ਨ ਦਿਖਾਇ ॥ਚਾਰੇ ਕੁੰਡਾ ਭਾਲਿ ਕੈ ਆਇ ਪਇਆ ਸਰਣਾਇ ॥ਨਾਨਕ ਸਚੈ ਪਾਤਿਸਾਹਿ ਡੁਬਦਾ ਲਇਆ ਕਢਾਇ ॥੪॥੩॥੭੩॥: O mortal, you came here to earn a profit.What useless activities are you attached to? Your life-night is coming to its end. ||1||Pause|| The animals and the birds frolic and play-they do not see death.Mankind is also with them, trapped in the net of Maya.Those who always remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord, are considered to be liberated. ||2|| That dwelling which you will have to abandon and vacate-you are attached to it in your mind. And that place where you must go to dwell-you have no regard for it at all. Those who fall at the Feet of the Guru are released from this bondage. ||3|| No one else can save you-don’t look for anyone else. I have searched in all four directions; I have come to find His Sanctuary.O Nanak, the True King has pulled me out and saved me from drowning! ||4||3||73||

Guru Nanak Sahib points to give up houmai (ego) in life in order to reach the destination:-
ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਈਐ ਤਾ ਸਹੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਅਉਰੁ ਕੈਸੀ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ॥ਸਹੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਦੇਖੈ ਸੋ ਦਿਨੁ ਲੇਖੈ ਕਾਮਣਿ ਨਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਈ ॥ (Raag Tilang M. 1, GGS. 722-13): Give up your selfhood, and so obtain your Husband Lord; what other clever tricks are of any use? When the Husband Lord looks upon the soul-bride with His Gracious Glance, that day.

“Gurbani eis jag mein channan” (let us immerse in the divine light of Gurbani with a humble Ardas asking for the right direction (sojhee). The need is to have trust and faith in ONE Waheguru “ਕੋਈ ਰਖਿ ਨ ਸਕਈ ਦੂਜਾ ਕੋ ਨ ਦਿਖਾਇ”.

From Gurbaanee one also learns when and how this long journey is successful.
This journey is successful only when one meets with the SAADHAA(GuROO)..GuR JOTi
A quote in this context as
Rag Dhanasaree

Thank you Bhai Sahib Jio for sharing Shabad-Vichaar.
The Gurbani’s hint and edict here seems to be to realize our Mool (Source, Jot…), within.
• ਮੂਲਹੁ ਭੁਲਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਏ ॥੨॥: (One who) has forgotten (his) Mool (Source, Jot…), (he) wastes away his life. ||2|| (sggs 664).
• ਸਫਲੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਜਾਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਰਿਦੈ ਵਸਾਏ ॥: Fruitful is the life of those who, by becming the Gurmukh, recognize and enshrine “Hari” (Mool, Source, Jot…) in their Heart (sggs 513).
Which, according to the Gurbani, is possible through the Guru (Wisdom or Divine Knowledge of the Gur-Shabad, Gur-Giaan, Gur-Updesh…).
• ਗੁਰ ਮਿਲਿ ਤਾ ਕੇ ਖੁਲ੍ਹ੍ਹੇ ਕਪਾਟ ॥ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਜੋਨੀ ਬਾਟ ॥੪॥: Meeting with the Guru, his doors (of the mind) open wide, and (then he) does not have to journey through the “Joni” again. ||4|| (sggs 1159).
• ਗੁਰੁ ਭੇਟਿਆ ਹੈ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਦਾਤਾ ॥ ਹਰਿ ਕੀਈ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਸਫਲ ਜਾਤਾ ॥: I have met the Guru, the Bestower of salvation. “Hari” has made my journey fruitful (sggs 801).

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